[GE users] Multiple SGEs

Charu Chaubal Charu.Chaubal at Sun.COM
Wed Mar 31 17:19:30 BST 2004


Hi Mikhail,

Some of the resource descriptions and the ways in which resources are managed 
have changed between 5.3 and 6.  So, in some cases, you might need to have a 
different set of options to qsub, qalter, etc, if you want to use both 5.3 and 6.

It should be possible to define your resources almost identically between the 
two, or to have a wrapper which does the translation for you.

Also, if you use the multi-cluster approach described here:
http://gridengine.sunsource.net/project/gridengine/howto/TransferQueues/transferqueues.html
then you should be able to hide the fact of 2 grids from your users.

Regards,
	Charu




Mikhail Kuzminsky wrote:
> According to Andreas Haas
> 
>>Hi Ralph,
>>
>>I agree use of multiple independent cells is a good mode to start with.
>>Managing multiple independent cells is supported by Grid Engine ...
> 
>   We also plan to start the work w/multiple SGE's/multiple cells.
> But I want to extend the question: will be "interoperable" the
> configuration w/different SGE versions, for example SGE 5.3 & SGE 6.0 ?
> 
> Mikhail Kuzminsky
> Zelinsky Institute of Organic Chemistry
> Moscow
> 
> 
>>well except with the end user interfaces (qsub/...) we failed to go
>>the last mile so far.
>>
>>My thinking is that having the ability to clearly specify a particular
>>cell at the command line rather than trough env vars surely would help
>>end users adoption. Please find idea's how to adress this by providing
>>corresponding wrappers adding a -cell switch to qsub/.. interface
>>
>>   http://gridengine.sunsource.net/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=3972&listName=users
>>
>>would be interesting to hear how it goes if you chose that approach.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Andreas
>>
>>On Thu, 25 Mar 2004, Ralph Castain wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi Ron
>>>
>>>Thanks for the info on the SGE_CELL environmental variable - we'll check
>>>that out, and try to see if we can qsub to different SGE masters from a
>>>single host.
>>>
>>>Your question about cells vs mult-clustering was intriguing. I think
>>>that perhaps this is a semantic issue, so let me clarify our thinking.
>>>We distinguish those two terms as:
>>>
>>>Grid cell: a group of machines, connected into a "grid" via high latency
>>>network connections (e.g., TCP/IP over standard Ethernet), coordinated
>>>by a "master" that handles the queues for each machine
>>>
>>>Cluster: a group of machines, connected via low latency interconnects
>>>(e.g., Infiniband), coordinated by a "master" that handles the queues
>>>for each machine
>>>
>>>In other words, the only difference between a multi-grid cell
>>>installation and a multi-cluster installation is the latency of the
>>>individual groups of machines. In our situation, we consider the system
>>>to be of a mult-grid cell nature. All of our "groups" are of the grid
>>>variety. Unfortunately, we cannot simply link all of the machines
>>>together into one large "grid" because each grid cell is independently
>>>owned and operated, with its own security system, job scheduling
>>>priorities, etc.
>>>
>>>The only thing all the grid cells have in common (at the moment) is the
>>>use of SGE as their "master". What we have managed to do is negotiate
>>>with each grid cell owner the right to allow people from outside their
>>>cell (but within the university!) to have a very tightly limited ability
>>>to execute applications on their grid cell. Hence my questions regarding
>>>the use of qsub to multiple SGE's.
>>>
>>>I'm sure someone out there will suggest using Globus as the "glue" to
>>>tie this together. With all due respect to the Globus advocates, please
>>>spare the electrons - we do not wish to expend the effort required on
>>>Globus at this stage. First, we'd just like to get everyone used to the
>>>idea of "sharing" access to their local grid resources, and validate
>>>that there is in fact a benefit to more global access to resources.
>>>
>>>Hope that helps explain the situation. Feel free to provide any
>>>suggestions on easier ways to accomplish our objective!
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>Ralph
>>>
>>>On Wed, 2004-03-24 at 22:30, Ron Chen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>--- Ralph Castain <ralph.castain at colostate.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Questions:
>>>>>
>>>>>(a) how does qsub know which GE to send the request
>>>>>to?
>>>>
>>>>It looks at the $SGE_CELL variable to determine which
>>>>sge cell you are currently pointing to. (the default
>>>>cell is "default")
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(b) If I do that multiple times, once for each GE
>>>>
>>>>grid
>>>>
>>>>>cell, will they overwrite each other?
>>>>
>>>>SGE cells do not communicate with each other, they are
>>>>like seperate clusters.
>>>>
>>>>If you configure host X to be the submit host for cell
>>>>A, since cells are seperate clusters, cell B will not
>>>>know about host X, so you will need to do it again.
>>>>
>>>>I am not 100% sure, but you can try to configure a
>>>>host to be submit host for a cell, and then point to
>>>>another cell and try to submit a job.
>>>>
>>>>I think most people here don't use cells, there are
>>>>actually several ways to do multi-clustering -- but of
>>>>course we need to know why you use cells in the first
>>>>place!
>>>>
>>>> -Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure if/what/where the
>>>>
>>>>>script writes
>>>>>anything, other than the environment-setting script
>>>>>"settings.sh".
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________
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>>>>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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>>>>
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> 
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-- 
####################################################################
# Charu V. Chaubal              # Phone: (650) 786-7672 (x87672)   #
# Grid Computing Technologist   # Fax:   (650) 786-4591            #
# Sun Microsystems, Inc.        # Email: charu.chaubal at sun.com     #
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